|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 04:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Weren't you the one who brought up the Police to solidify your stance on Concord "protecting"? Because someone claimed that "Protection" was not the service provided by CONCORD. RL Police provide Protection, not Prevention. CONCORD provides Protection, not Prevention. See? In broad strokes, comparing CONCORD to a Police force works. Once you start into details like "well that means CONCORD should patrol like real police" or "why doesn't CONCORD attack the catalyst yellowboxing a miner in a belt," the comparison breaks down because there are no Crimes in EVE that CONCORD doesn't already punish nigh-instantly.
You are sorely mistaken.
Real world police do protection and prevention.
Not only will they arrest you for commiting a crime, but also will arrest you if they suspect you of planning to commit a crime.
I could list all the cases where the FBI has arrested tons of people on conspiracy to commit crimes they themelves facilitated the criminals to actually plan to commit. (Like where the FBI tricked the persons into believing they were going to sell explosives to them and then arrested the person on conspiracy to commit terrorism before the act ever happened even if there were no explosives to begin with).
As in.... It would be like concord blowing up ships because you locked someone. Sure you might have just been scanning them, but they needed to punish you just to be sure you were conspiring to commit a henious act.
So no. Concord isn't like real life police in that respect.
Personally, I would prefer that our police authorities not arrest people for theoretical crime, but the truth is that they do and that is called crime prevention. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
262
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 05:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Conspiracy to Commit is, itself a crime. 18 USC S 2332b (a)(2)
"(2) Treatment of threats, attempts and conspiracies.GÇö Whoever threatens to commit an offense under paragraph (1), or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished under subsection (c)."
Locking someone is not a crime in EVE.
Once again, you're confusing RL laws with laws in EVE.
Incidentally, Conspiracy is a lot more involved than "might have been planning."
No where did I say that locking on to some one was against "EVE law" nor do I suggest they be changed to suit such a need.
I am just saying that if real world laws applied to "EVE laws" that locking on to someone would be a crime because that would be a sign that you are conspiring to commit an offense. It would be like pointing a gun at someone or some instrument that could be a gun.
Sure you could say, "But officer I was just pointing a gun at them! I wasn't going to shoot!" (Like lets say you went into a bank and pointed a toy gun at the teller.)
So no. "EVE law" has nothing to do with real world law in that regard because you can basically point your guns at someone all day and nothing happens. I don't think this should change either.
As to the conspiracy issues.... It is a gray area where thinking about committing a crime begings and conspriracy begins.
Everyone thinks about committing crimes on occasion but it doesn't mean they will do it.
But even doing a google search on the means on how to commit the crime is grounds enough to convict you in some cases.
It would be like if concord could court order google to hand over ip addresses and to automatically blow up any anyones ship who visisted Mittani's guide on how to gank miners.
See there is a quite a big difference between real world police and Concord. It would be silly to try to make the two similiar. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
262
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 05:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:See there is a quite a big difference between real world police and Concord. It would be silly to try to make the two similiar. I never said anything about porting RL Laws into EVE. Nor did I say that RL Police were the same as CONCORD. In fact, I said that RL Police and CONCORD were only similar in broad strokes and if simplified, and that any comparison would fall apart in the specifics. All I said was that CONCORD provides Protection as its service, rather than Prevention. Just like RL Police provide Protection as its service, rather than prevention. (Arresting someone for conspiracy means that the crime of Conspiracy was committed, so the crime charged was, in fact, not prevented.) And that not providing Prevention as their service does not negate the fact that they provide protection.
That said, law enforcement itself believes that its job is to prevent crime, not just prosecute it.....
For example, the FBI wants to aggregate social media in order to prevent crime:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/minority-report-is-real-fbi-wants-to-use-social-networks-to-prevent-future-crime/
I did a google search on "FBI" and "crime prevention" and got tons of examples..... Also this gem though very politically biased:
http://harmlesserrorblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/FBIentrapsmantopreventfakecrime.html
So if you called the FBI today and asked them "Do you prevent crime?" I'm sure the person who answered the phone would say yes.
With EVE there is just punishment. There is nothing wrong with that. Unless you really want people at CCP investigating people for planning to commit EVE crimes.
[edit]
All this talk about the FBI and me posting those links probaly has me on their watch list now. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
262
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 06:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:
So if you called the FBI today and asked them "Do you prevent crime?" I'm sure the person who answered the phone would say yes.
If you called them and asked them if they had a zero tolerance for employee drug taking, they would say yes. Doesn't make it true though.
Well by that I mean that its official policy. I'm sure you could get a disgruntled employee saying "No we don't really prevent crime." but then if it was made public, his supervisor would probaly have a word with him. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
262
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 06:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As they can do nothing until a Law has been broken.
Ah. But the trick of the system is to have so many laws on the books is that its only a matter of time before they find an existing one to arrest you with. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
263
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 00:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hrm.... This has really turned into a threadnaught since I left last night.
Where to begin....
Technically all the wardecs pay for the cost of concord protection. I mean 50 million a week at a mimimun isn't something to sneeze at especially if you are decing corps that cost more than that.
I suppose many of you would think it would be awesome if you could pay the police $5,000 so you could beat up your neighbors for a week. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
263
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 00:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm.... This has really turned into a threadnaught since I left last night.
Where to begin....
Technically all the wardecs pay for the cost of concord protection. I mean 50 million a week at a mimimun isn't something to sneeze at especially if you are decing corps that cost more than that.
I suppose many of you would think it would be awesome if you could pay the police $5,000 so you could beat up your neighbors for a week. War Decs are bribes. I don't know about you but if I worked for CONCORD I would want to be paid, besides why would members of concord want to pay for their ships with bribes.
I don't know my history, but I do recall many police officials suplimenting most of their extraordinary income with bribes back in the day.
I mean how to pay for all those hotel nights with the mistress.
Concord apparently sees wardecs as official business as they have no qualms about making the bribes public for all to pay for.
Maybe all those taxes and broker fees go to concord as well. I don't know.
Of course it could be that concord police just get a hard on for blowing people up with god ships and do it for the lulz. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
268
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So 0 risk to me right? I mean granted I would lose some of my sec status... but is that all I would risk? If you're given a ship by someone, for whatever reason, and use it to gank someone else, you put the cost of that hull and its modules on the line to try to get an even bigger payout than if you were to just go to market and sell the ship.
Hrm.... I think we are talking about theoretical opportunity costs. If someone were to give you a ship to go ganking, you could sell it, but then you'd lose out on the opportunity to gank someone.
By that I mean you lose out on the joy of seeing someone elses day ruined. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm.... I think we are talking about theoretical opportunity costs. If someone were to give you a ship to go ganking, you could sell it, but then you'd lose out on the opportunity to gank someone.
By that I mean you lose out on the joy of seeing someone elses day ruined. But you'd have the isk. Instead, you choose to risk that isk on the gamble that you get a bigger payday.
What if isk is no matter. I could use 500 million isk ship to gank a miner. Sure I could have the 500 million if I sold it, but I know there is no risk in me not ganking the target (unless I am being dumb about it).
I mean I know there is no risk, because the outcome is certain. I will die, but so will he. Will there be a payout? Not enough to replace a 500 million isk ship.
My reward?
Hopefully tears in local. I suppose there is the risk that he won't say anything, but deep down I know that doesn't matter.
My point is that ganking usually has no such thing as risk and always a reward. You already know what you are going to lose. That is not really risk. That is a acceptable loss. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
270
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:But there's a risk he won't whine in local, or send you angry emails, or sperg to CCP about how evil you are and how they should totally reimburse him his ship.
And "payday" isn't necessarily just isk, although that's the most common definition.
I said, there is the risk there won't be tears in local. But there is always the reward you know that you caused a loss.
Unless you utterly fail at ganking, then the loss is a 100% certain fact.
I suppose the whole risk versus reward thing is objective.
You can always obtain self congradulating rewards for little or no risk.
[edit]
Kind of like posting on the forums. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
|
|
|